That said, I’ve been struck by certain things I’ve noticed this summer- namely women who claim to be single by choice, but are really single by circumstances of their own making.
I attribute this new phenomenon to women refusing to “date within their means.” We’re always taught as children to dream big because we’re told “you can be anything you want to be.” We quickly learn that this is piece of information is filled with caveats- in order to really exercise the options to be anything you want to be, you must make the grades, have the requisite extracurricular activities and truly apply yourself to be competitive. This also applies to dating.
Now, allow me to clarify that I’m not saying that there’s a dating caste system that some people are held to. However, I am saying that perhaps we need to reevaluate our standards. This is the typical wish list of most black women (including my friends): “I want a hedge fund manager with a BA from Yale, an MBA from Harvard, he’s 6’3,” with a swimmer’s body, and looks like Morris Chestnut.”
So what is the problem, you ask? Well, a lot of women requesting this exhaustive list have a college degree from Podunk State, no advanced degree, stands 5’3” in stature and doesn’t work out, and works an entry level marketing job. Simply put, if you live at home with your mom (and not to save money for a home of your own, but to spend all your money on clothes and ill-fitting shoes), have a B.A., no advanced degree, average to moderately good looking, yes you may have a chance at landing an i-banker or entertainment executive of your dreams…for the time being (which from my observations is about 2 years, tops). However, you will probably have an issue keeping him. Why? Well, you don’t have much in common and probably socialize in different circles, for starters.
You can’t ask for what YOU do not have. How dare you ask someone to come to the table with something you not only do not have, but in some instances will NEVER even have access to? That’s unrealistic, and I think is a reason why women of all calibers (dimes, nickels, pennies- yes pennies need love too) end up alone. We apply the notion of “being/having anything we want to be/have” to dating, and the competition is not comparable. There is always someone prettier, more accomplished, smarter, better connected, more physically fit, etc.
So all of this to say…while I encourage and support my sisters to “aim high,” “dream big,” and all those other aspirational sayings your mother’s whispered in your ears, I am more inclined to tell you to be realistic as well. Consider this- if you expect all of these things from a man, what do you think he expects from you? Think about it.
Date responsibly.
Bari
{ 22 comments… read them below or add one }
I totally agree…I think that there are a lot of women (particularly in larger, urban settings) who move there after graduating from their average (not to knock your college education, but don’t lie…you didn’t go to an Ivy) looking for “the man of their dreams”…i.e., the guy enrolled at Harvard Law working at the big firm in DC for the summer who already has a Masters from Yale.
All people entering into the dating world should be realistic about what they bring to the table and what they have to offer. It’s not to say that you can’t get the man of your dreams…but you should realize that reaching for the man of your dreams may involve bypassing the man that has been placed in your life for a reason. Think on it.
Ahhhh…the infamous “Come Up Chick”. I don’t want her or need her. She rides the bus but your 2007 Benz isn’t new or shiny enough for her. You really need to be at my love or quickly on the way for me to seriously date you.
I think the same can apply for men. A lot of brothas want a woman who is more attractive, wealthier, wiser, and more successful than their current “level” demands. You gotta step up your game first…
“You can’t ask for what YOU do not have.”
Co-sign. Amen. Church. Learned this lesson freshman year of college. Some girls wouldn’t talk to a guy because he didn’t have a car….as a freshman. Umm, chick you’re walking too!! Crazy…
Well I’m still in college thus my perspective on this is limited, however, I do recognize Bari’s point.
Quick question, what exactly is it about wealth and power that attracts women? Is it that they would like to be surrounded by wealth for appearances sake? The cars, houses and clothes all indicate wealth but what exactly does wealth indicate? Behind all of this is it that the “ideal man” attained this wealth and power because of more abstract yet inherently desirable personal qualities?
Lets say you meet your ideal man and everything’s great yet a couple years in you find out that he is an undercutting, back stabbing shark-in-a-suit and that he got his money along with a closet of skeletons. What do you do then? Divorce?
My concern is that inherent in this discussion is the evaluation of a person by their material successes. I understand that this is just the way of the world but truthfully the person I’m aiming for isn’t interested solely in affluence or the panache conferred by a elite institution. I’d like to think that I can connect with someone on a deeper level and that the connection wont be clouded by a materialist success metric.
That said, I do believe that ones successes reflect back on their composure as a person, however, there is always a back story. I know a good deal of “trust fund kids” who are outwardly successful yet are complete stains. Likewise, I know kids who are great people but aren’t in the “hot” fields and thus don’t have their Lambo on order at 26…
Mz B, as much as I wholeheartedly agree with you, I’ve been starting to wonder how “unrealistic” these women’s goals are. Considering, that we are living in the age where the 5’3”, uneducated hood-rat (let’s call her “Kiki”), can marry the 6’4” Harvard business man, I think that professional men also need to be held accountable. My friend used a great analogy the other day about the dating pool of life, and how many professional men who are equipped to scuba dive to get the correct match, are often times unwilling to even dip their feet in to find a suitable mate. So if you are Kiki, why aim low when all you have to do is wade in the water to find a professional black man? And I’m not talking about “professional” in a sense that because he can catch pigskin or his legs are 5 feet longer than the average man’s that he’s been cast into a more elusive social structure. I’m talking about professional in the sense that he’s gone to the best schools, has a blossoming portfolio and wants Obama to win for reasons other than “because he’s black.”
I’ve recently noticed a trend with a lot of my Yale, Harvard, and Stanford, young educated professional male friends (“Dexters”), where they would rather go to less than par clubs or lounges to pick-up and date women, than to date their professional colleagues or friends of their professional colleagues. I think that professional men need to start “dating within their means,” as well, and that doesn’t necessarily mean to raise the bar, but to start with the bar as high as it should be. And the problem doesn’t only lie with professional men. I have encountered a lot of successful women who would pass by men in their fields to date the guy pumping their gas. While I do respect that we all need to feel loved and happiness counts, but how long do they expect that to last? What could they possibly have in common? And we end up with these under-par men experiencing what I call a “holiday.” Where all no-degree-having-government-job-working “Rasheed” has to do is be in the right place at the right time, and end up with an “Oprah” taking care of him for at least 4 or 5 years until she realizes that he isn’t the right man for her.
The effects of all this backwards thinking is that the Kikis and Rasheeds of the world end up with unrealistic dating expectations that only mirror what is going on in society. Just look at the music, for a woman to even be cemented in a verse she has to be gliding up and down a pole. For the sake of brevity, Kiki and Rasheed won’t ever have to reevaluate their views on dating if Oprah and Dexter aren’t as well.
Sweet Lord…Rasheed, Oprah and Kiki? I quit. lol
Allow me to add an addendum: You CAN ask for what you do not have, but you do NOT have the right to cop an attitude when you do not receive it, because you were never entitled to it (nor earned it) to begin with.
And I feel you on the wading pool analogy. That ‘sounds’ familiar.
Can I also add: Don’t get mad when he kicks you out of the mansion and start biting him infront of his esteemed guests and country men.
“You can’t ask for what YOU do not have.”
Amen Bari. I tell friends all the time not to look for something in another person that you do not possess for yourself.
unequally yoked
WOW. TT has a lot to say! She must be as educated and well deserving of high quality man as Bari. I need to go get my scuba suit so I can jump in the deep end and catch one of them.
Now for a real comment…
A lot of people attempt to date/marry up because they see it as a short cut to happiness and wealth. I agree that the current generation has been told that they can do anything and be anything they want to be in life. Unfortunately, many of us have misinterpreted this message to mean we can have/deserve anything we want in life. I’ve never been a believer that you can gain and maintain success and power by association, whether that be through family, friends or lovers. There are a lot of confused men and women in life that haven’t done the work they needed to be successfully, but are happy to benefit from someone else’s hard work. As a relatively sane and logical person, this doesn’t make any sense to me so I just have to acknowledge it and move on. Thankfully people like Bari point these things out to the masses so I don’t have to have the conversation.
As for TT’s comment on the reverse situation where people only “date down, ” I can only provide some perspective from the black community. I think a lot of successful black women and men struggle with reconciling their success and their black identities. While this is finally starting to change, the prevailing notion for young black people is that the more successful you become in life (minus sports and entertainment), the less “black” you become. People often use their relationships, whether dating or marriage, as an attempt to fill the voids in their lives. I’ve observed that many successful black women and men stay in the shallow end of the pool in attempts to “maintain their blackness.” They perceive that dating a black person with a more modest station in life makes them more “black.” This is much like my previous point. However instead of gaining success and power by association, people are attempting to gain “black” currency by association.
These relationships may work in high school, college and even a short while afterwards. They can even work if neither party is seriously invested in the relationship. However, the relationship will ultimately become strained overtime as the individuals are on two different life projections.
There is obviously a lot more to say on the subject, but it’s time to eat…
So here’s my lesson recap:
- Aim high, but don’t expect what you haven’t honestly earned (and no, it doesn’t matter that someone else circumvented the system)
- While you may get a medal for 10th place these, don’t expect it to be gold
- Power, success and blackness by association will only get you so far
ENFAMUS, Bari can attest to the fact that “high quality,” in my opinion consists of “supa killas” and “private-school thugs,” which as we all know can’t swim….
Seriously, I totally agree with rationale on why professional black men and women “date down.” However, I would go one step further to add that a lot of them “date down” to gain a sense of confidence in themselves that goes beyond power, success and blackness.
“Dating down” occurs a lot of the times, because the professional man or woman does not feel that they would have anything to “bring to the table” if they dated someone of their own caliber. Perhaps, they are uncomfortable with their success because they are the first in their families to achieve it or their parent’s didn’t install values such as creating lasting legacies. Whatever the case may be, when faced with a dating counterpart who is comfortable in such an environment, certain professional black men and women get intimidated and run to what they know.
Some professionals enjoy the fact that Kiki and Rasheed are impressed that they have a 401(k) or know how to read the trades. Dexter and Oprah take that as a given. Kiki and Rasheed are impressed that they know 15% is the bare minimum for a customary tip or that the local crab shack isn’t a five star establishment. Dexter and Oprah take that as a given. What’s the end result? They wife/husband up Kiki/Rasheed and run it till the wheels roll off.
Unfortunately, things like “billing” and “clients” are limiting my response, but the bottom line is that the psyches of a lot of professional black men and women are backwords, to say the least. Who do we blame? Slavery? The white man? Black Jesus?
Let the church say Amen. I’ve only read a few of the other comments, but I can say that ya’ll are making some good points. My two cents would be to say that the key to successful dating is to know who YOU are before you go out there. Like Bari said, if you are fishing for the biggest fish in the sea and you don’t even have a big enough boat to put it in, how long do you think you are gonna be able to string it along before the line breaks??
Big goals and high standards are great… if you have first set them for yourself and are at least working on achieving them before you go off and try to stick them on someone else. Also, like Bari has said, while you are looking for what the guy can bring to the relationship, what exactly can you bring? If two people don’t really compliment each other (meaning if both can’t bring anything to the table) then all there will ever be is “dating” and never any kind of relationship.
Get it together BEFORE you go looking! That way you won’t feel as if you’ll need to satisfy whomever by standing on your head to please them or most importantly, to keep them.
Never been the status conscious, social ladder climbing chick looking for Mr. Big Bucks.
As cheesy as it sounds, I really look at what type of person you are.
Am I ambitious? Yes. VERY. By that same point, I expect you to be, as well.
I demand only the best of myself, and any partner of mine has to be of the same mindset.
I don’t focus so much on where you are as where you’re working hard to get to.
Women out here chasing “the big dogs” are wasting their time chasing fantasies.
Everyone is agreeing but what do folks think about the couple that say the guy has 3 degrees all from an ivy league but his girl may only have a BA from say USC and is a highly accomplished filmmaker? Is she out of her league? Income and number of degrees don’t necesarily dictate what success is and or dating up or down. Should Melinda Gates not have married Bill because he dropped out of school to chase a dream? What if dude has an MBA from Harvard but uses it to run a non profit he’s passionate about but only brining in 60K a year and being written up in Forbes is not important to him. Why is everyone only looking at education levels in terms of finding a mate? Are equal views in religion, family, personal interest not important anymore? I think there are so many exceptions to dating up and down. I don’t think people should date down for self confidence, or making requirements when they don’t have what they’re requiring but damn ya’ll. I feel like everyone thinks that one with a BA is not deserving of someone with a PhD.
I feel AC’s comment. Its like The Fitness Diva said, “I don’t focus so much on where you are as where you’re working hard to get to.” What that translates to to me is that each person needs to be a producer in the relationship, not just a consumer. People know what works for them. If they are cool with their mate consuming more than they produce then so be it.
I think its important that two people compliment each other in the relationship, that’s how things last. Each person brings something in that makes the relationship stronger so yeah, definitely things like “religion, family, personal interest” are just as important as educational background/achievements.
I maybe not on the same track as everyone else, but some of us are single not by choice but by circumstances. I choice to bring up my children without bringing another man in the picture so that my children do not get confused. Not going into details, it is hard to find a man which is true to his self. They are sometimes looking for a woman who has a home, car etc. What happened to the opposit sex just liking one another and taking time to get to know that person and not what possessions they have.
I hear you AC and CP. However, allow me to clarify the premise of the note.
Nothing happened to “taking time to get to know a person and not what possession they have.” That’s still preferred. However, I’m writing on an observation that I’ve made this summer…amongst my own friends and family…of deciding to engage in romantic relationships with those who are KNOWN to have certain exhaustive requests/lists for a mate, but lack many of the requirements themselves.
Basically, my issue is that when those checklist items become a pre-requisite for dating someone is when it becomes a problem, particularly when you don’t meet your own standards, but impose them on others.
Man please. I know tons of females that drive hondas to the club but think you need a benz to speak to them.
this is not new nor will it stop at all. Womp womp to the fry chick that is the weekend fly chick. Until they get these child support guidelines together (i kid i kid!) this will continue to run rampant.
LOL… um… is it bad that I don’t want to date a man who has a PhD? I’m not interested in dating someone within my industry…
These comments sure are interesting… and Bari, I agree w/you to a certain extent… (and I’d add that, just to be equal, men need to take a good look at this column and re-evaluate their standards as well)…
Sometimes it’s not necessarily about dating within your range… because I know a lot of people who have all the check-mark criteria and are still lonely… sometimes it’s more about relaxing your standards so you can see the potential or feel the chemistry with others. I mean… if Halle Berry only had eyes for Morris Chestnutt… she would have missed out on her Canadian armcandy! Ok that’s a terrible example… but my point is that we as women AND men tend to focus on all of the things we WANT in a mate instead of looking for the things we need…
Bari…welcome back…let the cuss outs resume. Alot of women are single because the men are tired of putting up with there superficial and shallow mentality. How can a woman have this checklist on what she want in man such as income, job, and type of house when she has bad credit, overweight or out of shape (yeah I said it), still on Mom & Dad Payroll,LLC, lack goals, etc. It is like Leah said, we focus on things we want rather than things we need. I strongly feel some women need mentors.