And while ‘paying for good grades’ may not have worked for you, do you think that it couldn’t work for anyone? Even the kids in the doc who said themselves that it was a motivator for them?

G.D. -
As I have just stated, I grew up in a poor neighborhood and went to poor schools from grade school through high school so I firstly don’t need you to educate me on the affects of poverty on children’s ability to get an education, and not just an education, but a GOOD education. That’s first and foremost. And let me also add that I hope that you don’t take this as a vicious attack, but just know that the points that you raised have fired me up so now I must let loose on you…

So you said:

“And y’all seem to be fronting like the incentives in educations are not PRIMARILY economic.”

I would say that I know that the incentives are economic: Schools get paid when students are present in class. The higher the education that one receives, the higher the wage they will have the potential to earn later. So, because there is an economic incentive all the way through education you fill that it is a good idea to provide students with an economic incentive as a way of opening up resources to them in the future?

When I was fighting for my education back in jr. high and high school I don’t think I would have responded to being paid to learn, what I would have responded to was my teachers being paid to teach me. Perhaps if high wages are paid to teachers who teach in poor areas then they will be more inclined to stick around and actually support students in obtaining an education that is of quality. Why the hell should one go to school if one is not challenged? Why should one go to school if when one gets to school one’s teacher has left in the middle of the school year because they were offered a better opportunity at a “better” school?? This was the reality of my childhood. If we are going to stand behind the economic incentive in education why not give the communities that these schools serve an economic incentive? As I said, I would not have been interested in being paid, but instead interested in being able to have someone help me with my homework (ie, having a community center, after school programs, tutoring, etc).

You said:

“Because when everyone around you has gone to college and you have the resources to go to college, there’s a feedback loop regarding social expectation.”

I agree with this and I also agree that THIS is not the reality of the environment of children living in poverty, but it could be. If we did have the community centers in these communities and then actually have folks who have been to college come into the neighborhood, or better yet, have those use to be members of the community and have made it out to actually come back and add their knowledge and resources then that would make a difference as well. It sure as hell would have made a difference for me to have seen someone who was already where I was striving to be come into my neighborhood and reach out.

And lastly, you said:

“Even the best students at those schools will struggle to keep up at four-year colleges (if they can get into them at all) because they’d been so shortchanged in terms of social and pecuniary resources.”

I agree with this as well. Why? Because again, this is MY reality: I was raised in poverty, graduated from high school, and will be finishing up my B.A. at UC Berkeley next summer (which took 5 years). Yes, it has been a challenge due to the fact that I DID NOT get the best quality of education from my schools although I graduated with honors!! But you know what, I’m making it and when its all over I will be able to say I MADE IT and I will then make the effort to go back into the community that damn near failed me and try to make sure that somebody else makes it because THAT is how you change lives, NOT by offering someone a meal in exchange for something that they should already be receiving!

It seems like you’re oversimplifying Fryer’s position re: paying students. This incentive program is taking place in a specific social context, one in which poor students with substantially fewer resources are lagging in achievement and just as likely to drop out as to graduate.
You might want to consider thatpoor students’ relationships with institutional education will necessarily be different from those of middle class and affluent families.

Why? Because when everyone around you has gone to college and you have the resources to go to college, there’s a feedback loop regarding social expectation. That’s part of the incentive. And y’all seem to be fronting like the incentives in educations are not PRIMARILY economic. Those people aren’t doing well in school just out of a desire to be ‘excellent,’ but because in their lives doing well in school dictates the kind of colleges they can go to and all the stuff that attends that.

While y’all are busy wagging your fingers, you’re ignoring the economic realities of poverty, and how they influence the decisions people make. My concern isn’t that Fryer is paying students to do well —it will probably work for the kids on the economic margins — but that doing well isn’t enough to matter. Even the best students at those schools will struggle to keep up at four-year colleges (if they can get into them at all) because they’d been so shortchanged in terms of social and pecuniary resources.

I’ll definitely blog about this soon, but let me just say this: education only stands to get worse when we would rather treat our children like consumers than producers. Just saying …